Who Gives A Fish Forums

I'm probably being foolish asking about a potential illness without any visual evidence, but I'm hoping the description might ring a bell with someone. I've had this tank running with these fish for about a year now, and I've lost 3 or 4 of them in the same way. Given that they were juveniles when I got them and should live for 4 years, it's hard to just write it off.

It's specifically my golden white cloud minnows that are affected - I haven't noticed it in the normal-colored ones. The fish will act like their tail section is heavy, dragging it down, and they'll eventually end up resting on the bottom of the tank. They can still swim and eat, but their movements are jerky, with their tail section drooping lower. There's no visible distortion, bloat, sunken belly, poop indicators, injuries, flukes, or parasites, and they don't lose color. They look normal, but they don't swim normally, and they'll eventually die.

I'm wondering if it might be related to my feeding habits. I definitely overfeed the minnows, since I'm also trying to feed the garras and sewellias, but the minnows get the biggest share. I feed every other day, with a day of fasting in between. My usual foods are frozen (BBS, cyclops, daphnia, mosquito larvae, and bloodworms - no more than once a week), live BBS and microworms (also no more than once a week), algae wafers or Repashy gel food, and once a week I'll give them some flake food, like Fluval bug bites or tropical krill flakes. Every other week, I'll add some veggies to the mix, mainly for the sewellia, but the minnows will eat anything. My tank's at 20-21C°, with fast flow, and I do a 30% water change every week.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

When I notice issues in my tank, my go-to move is a large water change - it's the first thing I do, regardless of when the last one was done. 30% just doesn't cut it, especially with a large tank like yours (which, by the way, looks amazing - TFF Tank of The Month contender, maybe?). I'd recommend bumping that up to at least 50%, especially considering the variety of foods you're offering. Have you run any water tests lately?

It would be super helpful to know if the fish's appearance changes at all right before they pass away. If you could grab a photo next time you spot one with symptoms, that would be a huge help.

I strongly believe this issue isn't related to the food you're providing. The symptoms you're describing could be a sign of inbred fish with genetic weaknesses or a disease, possibly a protozoan infection. However, without visual evidence, such as pictures and videos of the affected fish swimming, eating, and moving, it's difficult to determine the cause.

Considering the large amount of food you're feeding and the presence of many fish in the tank, I would recommend a thorough cleaning of the tank, including a significant water change, gravel cleaning, and filter maintenance. Protozoan infections are more common in tanks with excessive food and fish, as well as those with poor water quality and inadequate maintenance.

I'm not aware of the current state of cleanliness in your tank, but I would like to point out that big rocks and Java Moss can trap a lot of debris, creating an ideal environment for protozoa to thrive.

coltin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 7:58 am I strongly believe this issue isn't related to the food you're providing. The symptoms you're describing could be a sign of inbred fish with genetic weaknesses or a disease, possibly a protozoan infection. However, without visual evidence, such as pictures and videos of the affected fish swimming, eating, and moving, it's difficult to determine the cause.

Considering the large amount of food you're feeding and the presence of many fish in the tank, I would recommend a thorough cleaning of the tank, including a significant water change, gravel cleaning, and filter maintenance. Protozoan infections are more common in tanks with excessive food and fish, as well as those with poor water quality and inadequate maintenance.

I'm not aware of the current state of cleanliness in your tank, but I would like to point out that big rocks and Java Moss can trap a lot of debris, creating an ideal environment for protozoa to thrive.

I've been making an effort to keep the tank clean, so I recently removed half the rocks to reduce hiding spots for debris. Every other water change, I make sure to vacuum under the Java Moss thoroughly to prevent buildup, and I also vacuum between the stones to keep it tidy.

I'll definitely document the issue better next time it occurs, so we can get a clearer picture of what's going on. I've always assumed that if it were a bacterial issue, it would affect more fish at once, rather than just one every now and then. Although, I have lost some Sewellia in the past year as well, which does make me wonder if there's something underlying that I'm missing.

barnicle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 6:33 am When I notice issues in my tank, my go-to move is a large water change - it's the first thing I do, regardless of when the last one was done. 30% just doesn't cut it, especially with a large tank like yours (which, by the way, looks amazing - TFF Tank of The Month contender, maybe?). I'd recommend bumping that up to at least 50%, especially considering the variety of foods you're offering. Have you run any water tests lately?

It would be super helpful to know if the fish's appearance changes at all right before they pass away. If you could grab a photo next time you spot one with symptoms, that would be a huge help.

I've only been testing for NO2 and NO3 every now and then, and the results have been fine so far. I'm a bit limited when it comes to doing larger water changes, since I use cold tap water and it takes a while for the temperature to equalize - the tank doesn't have a heater, you see. I can definitely do more frequent changes, but I'd have to stick to the same volume.

If we look at the common culprits, bacterial infections would likely cause more widespread damage and the infected area would be red and inflamed. Fungal infections usually show up as white and fluffy on damaged tissue, but some types can infect healthy tissue too.

External parasites can be ruled out since you'd see them crawling over the fish. That leaves us with a protozoan infection or poor genetics. Protozoan infections often show up as a cream, white or grey patch on the body. It might be thin and pale, making it hard to spot on small fish.

Clean water, gravel, and filter are essential in reducing microscopic organisms. Salt can be used to treat these issues.

I've used salt to treat fish health issues before. It's relatively safe and commonly used in aquaculture to treat diseases. Salt can treat minor fungal and bacterial infections, as well as external protozoan infections. It won't treat whitespot or Velvet, but it'll treat most other types of external protozoan infections in freshwater fish.

You can add aquarium salt, swimming pool salt, or non-iodised salt to the tank at 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there's no improvement after 48 hours, you can double the dose. For livebearers, goldfish, or rainbowfish, you can double the dose from the start.

Keep the salt level like this for 2-4 weeks, but be aware that kidney damage can occur if it's too high for too long, especially for soft water fish. The salt won't affect beneficial filter bacteria, but it might affect some plants and snails at higher doses.

After treatment, do 10% water changes daily for a week with fresh, dechlorinated water. Then do 20% water changes daily for a week. This will dilute the salt slowly and prevent harm to the fish.

Beastie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 5:38 am I'm probably being foolish asking about a potential illness without any visual evidence, but I'm hoping the description might ring a bell with someone. I've had this tank running with these fish for about a year now, and I've lost 3 or 4 of them in the same way. Given that they were juveniles when I got them and should live for 4 years, it's hard to just write it off.

It's specifically my golden white cloud minnows that are affected - I haven't noticed it in the normal-colored ones. The fish will act like their tail section is heavy, dragging it down, and they'll eventually end up resting on the bottom of the tank. They can still swim and eat, but their movements are jerky, with their tail section drooping lower. There's no visible distortion, bloat, sunken belly, poop indicators, injuries, flukes, or parasites, and they don't lose color. They look normal, but they don't swim normally, and they'll eventually die.

I'm wondering if it might be related to my feeding habits. I definitely overfeed the minnows, since I'm also trying to feed the garras and sewellias, but the minnows get the biggest share. I feed every other day, with a day of fasting in between. My usual foods are frozen (BBS, cyclops, daphnia, mosquito larvae, and bloodworms - no more than once a week), live BBS and microworms (also no more than once a week), algae wafers or Repashy gel food, and once a week I'll give them some flake food, like Fluval bug bites or tropical krill flakes. Every other week, I'll add some veggies to the mix, mainly for the sewellia, but the minnows will eat anything. My tank's at 20-21C°, with fast flow, and I do a 30% water change every week.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I've been relying on outdoor tap water this winter, but it's been too cold to use directly. I've found a workaround by throwing a couple heaters and a powerhead into a bucket with the new water. To speed up the process, I also boil some water on the stove and add it to the mix, which helps bring the temperature up to a suitable range.

I use cold tap water for my water changes, can't use hot tap water due to our system. I just boil a kettle to warm up each bucket of new water.

I'll have to adopt a similar method, but I've been adding the water directly to the tank with a hose, no intermediate step with a bucket. I do it gradually, taking over an hour to refill the tank, hoping this gradual approach minimizes the temperature difference.

I'm inclined to think it's an internal issue, but I'm not going to pretend I can pinpoint what's going on inside those fish. I've seen something similar before - the fish starts listing to the back, and then it's like it just gives up, settling on the bottom like it's been wrecked. From there, it's usually a quick decline. The thing is, it's not like it hits all the fish at once - it's intermittent, and it takes its time. What's weird is that it never seemed to spread to other species, but it always managed to wipe out the affected group. That's got me wondering if it might be related to inbreeding - I mean, these are linebred morphs we're talking about, and big suppliers aren't always as careful as show breeders. Or it could be some kind of slow-moving pathogen that was already present in the fish when you got them. That's my two cents, but with diseases we can't see, it's always possible it's just a coincidence.