keeping jack dempsey with african cichlids

[meta_code]

I've got two african cichlids in my 55-gallon tank and one's being super aggressive towards the other. Got plenty of hiding spots, but this one cichlid just won't let the other alone, keeps chasing it out. I'm thinking of adding a couple more to the tank, like some folks suggested, but then my son's got this jack dempsey that's about the same size as my cichlids. He's looking to change up his tank, and I thought, why not put the jack dempsey in with my cichlids? Problem is, I'm not sure if that's a good idea - can african cichlids and a jack dempsey mix? I'm a bit hesitant, so any advice would be great.

[scaledone]

I wouldn't recommend mixing them, mainly due to the pH difference and their origins - Jack Dempseys are from South America, while African cichlids are, well, from Africa.

[fortuna_4]

The fish can probably adapt to the same water, but mixing is not a good idea. Are they lake cichlids from Africa? If so, I wouldn't do it, getting more of that kind to displace the aggression might not work out. If you had West Africans, like Jewel cichlids, it might be okay. Make sure they have a safe place to hide. Trading them off for something else could be a better option.

[whimmo]

Not to stir the pot, but I think the main concern with mixing your Jack Dempsey with the African cichlids is more about compatibility than water parameters. I mean, stores don't have different pH levels in their freshwater tanks, right? While it's not the most recommended thing to do, people often make a big deal about different water parameters, but unless you're breeding, it's not that crucial. I've got experience with multiple tanks - Malawi, Tanganyika, Victorkents, and Riverine species - and I've mixed them without issues. I've had Malawi and Riverine species together, Malawi and Tanganyika together, and even Vics with Tangs and Malawi. My only exception is a Crenicara filamentosa tank where I'm trying to breed them, but no luck so far. To me, the real concern is the fluffnut - the fish's individual personality.

[fortuna_4]

You're probably right about the water being the same, but I wouldn't have assumed this, many petstores will recomend additives or people may choose to get them on their own, thinking it's the right thing to do.

I've found most people don't realize how adaptable many fish are to slight changes in ph and water hardness. If I can drink it and bath in it, my fish can live in it. I've got various species of fish, and shrimp, in eight tanks - african cichlids, lake and west, centflake american cichlids, gouramis, tetras, cory cats, fish from India, Australia, Thailand. Their water changes all come from the same tap, I add stress coat and a declorinator, that's it, they thrive.

[whimmo]

I've seen it firsthand, not just assumed it. Every petstore I've been to runs on a single system, all their tanks have the same water. I'm not saying I don't believe in separating lakes and such, but telling someone they can't mix due to water is still not a strong enough reason for me. I'm just sharing my experience, maybe it's different elsewhere, but I doubt it.

[fin_frenzy8]

Water differences aren't the issue for me. I've kept new world and african cichlids in the same water, but I've never mixed them in the same tank. The real concerns are behavioral differences. They have distinct personalities, aggression levels, and social structures. Just because they can coexist doesn't mean they're getting the best environment. Isn't that why we keep fish, to give them a great life?

Diet is another thing to consider. Some foods perfect for new world cichlids can be toxic to africans. You can balance their needs, but you can't cater to both types equally. In the long run, everyone suffers.

Stocking levels are also a problem. Mbunas thrive in crowded tanks with distributed aggression, but new world cichlids don't work that way. They prefer lower stocking levels and more suitable tankmates. With africans, they'd lead a stressful life.

In short, mixing them can work, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

[tundrax]

I'm finding this thread pretty interesting, lots of good points being made. Great discussion, thanks for sharing your experiences.

[fortuna_4]

I keep my africans separate, water isn't the issue for me either. I've got new world and africans in the same water, just not the same tank. The real problem is their behavior, they're just too different. Africans are aggressive in their own way, and new worlds have their own thing going on. Even if they can coexist, it's not the best for the fish.

Diet's another thing, some foods that are great for new worlds can be toxic to africans. You can try to balance it out, but ultimately, you can't cater to both. Stocking levels are also a problem, africans like to be crowded, but new worlds don't. They're better off with less tankmates and a more peaceful environment.

For you, meta_code, I'd say either get more of the same africans or trade them off and get some suitable tankmates for the dempsey.

[whimmo]

I agree with the points made by others, my main concern initially was regarding the water.