I'm having an issue with one of my discus - it's got white stuff coming out of its head. I do regular water changes and treat with Melafix, aquarium salt, and sometimes Seachem Paraguard.
I also add Seachem Equilibrium after water changes since I use RO water. The water's crystal clear, but this is still happening.
White stuff on the head
Re: White stuff on the head
Re: White stuff on the head
How often are you changing the water, and what's the volume? Don't let the clear water fool you, it can still be hiding some issues. Could be an injury or the start of something worse. Try filling out the questionnaire, it might help narrow down the problem - http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...lease-complete
How often are you changing the water, and what's the volume? Don't let the clear water fool you, it can still be hiding some issues. Could be an injury or the start of something worse. Try filling out the questionnaire, it might help narrow down the problem - http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...lease-complete
Re: White stuff on the head
Re: White stuff on the head
I'm worried it's hole in the head. My experience with this condition hasn't been great - the usual treatment is metro, but I've found it rarely leads to complete healing.
I'm worried it's hole in the head. My experience with this condition hasn't been great - the usual treatment is metro, but I've found it rarely leads to complete healing.
Re: White stuff on the head
Re: White stuff on the head
Typically, it does leave a scar. There are two species of Hex - one can live outside the gut, which is why you get Hole in the Head or lateral line disease. They're almost indistinguishable under a microscope.
Typically, it does leave a scar. There are two species of Hex - one can live outside the gut, which is why you get Hole in the Head or lateral line disease. They're almost indistinguishable under a microscope.
Re: White stuff on the head
Re: White stuff on the head
Originally posted by FishNe
I'm afraid it is hole in the head. They say the treatment is metro but IME this never heals.
I tend to agree with FishNe on this one. Controlling the outbreak seems key here - more frequent water changes and increasing oxygen levels could be the way to go.
Originally posted by FishNe
I'm afraid it is hole in the head. They say the treatment is metro but IME this never heals.
I tend to agree with FishNe on this one. Controlling the outbreak seems key here - more frequent water changes and increasing oxygen levels could be the way to go.
Re: White stuff on the head
Re: White stuff on the head
DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE
Problem
1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
I've got a 5.5-inch discus with white stuff protruding from its head. This started after I added four Stendker discus babies (2.5-3 inches) from Discus Hans about two weeks ago. Before that, I had a fish die in quarantine three-four months ago - no symptoms, just stopped eating. Earlier this year, when I first got the discus in March, this affected fish and another little one were sick. I quarantined them both, and they survived. The little one had visible symptoms of HINH, which went away after aggressive treatment.
2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped Sprig, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
My discus is turning a little dark, with visible peppering and stripes. It doesn't eat but participates in feeding gatherings. It hides in the corner sometimes, and its head seems a bit swollen right now. No holes in the head, though.
3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
I've tried six capfuls of Paraguard on the first day, salt (not the full dose), and two capfuls of Melafix. I've been adding one capful of Melafix every day after that. I also added five capfuls of API Super Ick Cure at the beginning of the symptoms (since I didn't have another anti-fungal med at the time) and two tablespoons of aquarium salt.
Tank/Water
4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
My tank is supposed to be 90 gallons, but it measures about 78 gallons, including the sump. I've got three 5.5-inch fish, two 4-inch fish, one 3.5-inch fish, and four 2.5-inch fish.
5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
I usually do water changes twice a week.
6. How long has the tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
The tank has been running for seven months. I've got some sand in the back where the plant roots are forming, but the front section is bare. The sand is about 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep.
7. Do you age your water? If you do, for how long and what is the pH swing.
I don't age my water; I use it straight from the RO filter. The pH is usually around 7.
8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
I don't use any water conditioner.
9. Parameters and water source;
Unfortunately, I don't have an API Masterkit (other than NPH, Nitrite) right now, just test strips. I just measured, and the pH is about 6.4, with everything else looking normal (NH3 0, Nitrite 0, NO2 0, GH, and KH seem low - can't figure out the exact measure from test strips).
- temp _____84-86
- pH _____6.4
- ammonia reading ____0
- nitrite reading ____0
- nitrate reading ____too low
What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.
- well water ____none
- municipal water ____none
- RO water ____all
10. Any new fish, plants, or inverts added recently.
Yes, I added two new fish two weeks ago without quarantining them.
11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem, so be as specific as you can.
I feed them red bloodworms in the morning and Mysis shrimp with spirulina in the evening, one cube each time. I also add a small amount of Omega One Discus pellets and Ocean Nutrition flakes filled with nutrients.
12. Include any pictures or videos you have that show the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE
Problem
1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
I've got a 5.5-inch discus with white stuff protruding from its head. This started after I added four Stendker discus babies (2.5-3 inches) from Discus Hans about two weeks ago. Before that, I had a fish die in quarantine three-four months ago - no symptoms, just stopped eating. Earlier this year, when I first got the discus in March, this affected fish and another little one were sick. I quarantined them both, and they survived. The little one had visible symptoms of HINH, which went away after aggressive treatment.
2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped Sprig, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
My discus is turning a little dark, with visible peppering and stripes. It doesn't eat but participates in feeding gatherings. It hides in the corner sometimes, and its head seems a bit swollen right now. No holes in the head, though.
3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
I've tried six capfuls of Paraguard on the first day, salt (not the full dose), and two capfuls of Melafix. I've been adding one capful of Melafix every day after that. I also added five capfuls of API Super Ick Cure at the beginning of the symptoms (since I didn't have another anti-fungal med at the time) and two tablespoons of aquarium salt.
Tank/Water
4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
My tank is supposed to be 90 gallons, but it measures about 78 gallons, including the sump. I've got three 5.5-inch fish, two 4-inch fish, one 3.5-inch fish, and four 2.5-inch fish.
5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
I usually do water changes twice a week.
6. How long has the tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
The tank has been running for seven months. I've got some sand in the back where the plant roots are forming, but the front section is bare. The sand is about 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep.
7. Do you age your water? If you do, for how long and what is the pH swing.
I don't age my water; I use it straight from the RO filter. The pH is usually around 7.
8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
I don't use any water conditioner.
9. Parameters and water source;
Unfortunately, I don't have an API Masterkit (other than NPH, Nitrite) right now, just test strips. I just measured, and the pH is about 6.4, with everything else looking normal (NH3 0, Nitrite 0, NO2 0, GH, and KH seem low - can't figure out the exact measure from test strips).
- temp _____84-86
- pH _____6.4
- ammonia reading ____0
- nitrite reading ____0
- nitrate reading ____too low
What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.
- well water ____none
- municipal water ____none
- RO water ____all
10. Any new fish, plants, or inverts added recently.
Yes, I added two new fish two weeks ago without quarantining them.
11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem, so be as specific as you can.
I feed them red bloodworms in the morning and Mysis shrimp with spirulina in the evening, one cube each time. I also add a small amount of Omega One Discus pellets and Ocean Nutrition flakes filled with nutrients.
12. Include any pictures or videos you have that show the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
Re: White stuff on the head
Re: White stuff on the head
I'm still wondering about your bi-weekly water changes - what's the percentage you're swapping out. As for the fish with the white stuff, I'm afraid it's a lost cause. Cliff's right, our priority now is to prevent the others from getting infected. I don't think cross-contamination is the issue here, but I could be wrong.
You should test for a pH swing - it's simple. Fill a cup with fresh water, test the pH. Then, fill a bucket with tap water, add a bubbler, and test the pH after 12 hours. A pH swing over 0.4 can stress your fish and lead to disease and parasites over time.
I'm still wondering about your bi-weekly water changes - what's the percentage you're swapping out. As for the fish with the white stuff, I'm afraid it's a lost cause. Cliff's right, our priority now is to prevent the others from getting infected. I don't think cross-contamination is the issue here, but I could be wrong.
You should test for a pH swing - it's simple. Fill a cup with fresh water, test the pH. Then, fill a bucket with tap water, add a bubbler, and test the pH after 12 hours. A pH swing over 0.4 can stress your fish and lead to disease and parasites over time.
Re: White stuff on the head
Re: White stuff on the head
Today I performed a 30% water change, dosing a full dose of Metro, and added two tablespoons of salt - no other medications were used.
Today I performed a 30% water change, dosing a full dose of Metro, and added two tablespoons of salt - no other medications were used.
Re: White stuff on the head
Re: White stuff on the head
I've been doing water changes of 10+ gallons, which works out to around 17% of the total water content in the tank excluding the sump. My tank's water content is 63 gallons, so that's the percentage I'm looking at. I've been doing these water changes either all in one go on a Saturday or splitting them up into two sessions, one on Saturday and the other on Wednesday.
As for measuring pH swing, I'm not sure what kind of precision you're talking about. I've been using test strips, which don't give me a fractional value. I'm curious, what test kit do you use to get that kind of precision? Is it a digital pH reader?
I've been doing water changes of 10+ gallons, which works out to around 17% of the total water content in the tank excluding the sump. My tank's water content is 63 gallons, so that's the percentage I'm looking at. I've been doing these water changes either all in one go on a Saturday or splitting them up into two sessions, one on Saturday and the other on Wednesday.
As for measuring pH swing, I'm not sure what kind of precision you're talking about. I've been using test strips, which don't give me a fractional value. I'm curious, what test kit do you use to get that kind of precision? Is it a digital pH reader?
Re: White stuff on the head
Re: White stuff on the head
Ratin, given the likelihood of HITH, why not move this fish to your QT? Treating the entire DT doesn't seem like the best approach here. In my experience with human infectious diseases, I've seen similar lesions, which often turn out to be furuncles caused by gram-positive bacteria. These usually require drainage.
I'd recommend a full course of Metro, following the dosage guidelines on the forums, which are often higher than the packaging recommends. Combine this with high-dose salt and daily water changes above 50% to replace both the salt and Metro. If the fish survives and starts eating again, consider switching to Metro-impregnated food.
Temperature is a bit tricky, as you want it higher for hex but lower for bacteria. Metro covers some gram-negative bacteria, but not gram-positive, so a second treatment might be necessary. I'd suggest using amoxicillin or cephalexin, but I'm curious to hear what others would recommend.
Given the fish's poor prognosis, I might even try to extend one of the drainage puncta on the edge of the mass with a small scalpel incision to see if I can get blood or more pus. If it's pus, I'd gently push from the other side to get out as much debris as possible.
Also, with your current regimen, you're always at risk of pH crashes due to very low kH. I doubt your nitrates are too low to accurately measure, especially with the black algae. You might want to invest in a better testing system. How do you know when to replace your RO filters?
Just a side note, Melafix is essentially tea tree oil and might be more effective for recent transfers to prevent secondary infections. Paraguard, on the other hand, needs to be dosed daily for 2-3 weeks, but it's more of an antiseptic than an antibiotic.
Keep in mind that I'm a retired physician, and while I have a good grasp of infectious diseases, my experience with aquariums is limited. I've been reading extensively on the subject, but I haven't kept discus since college, over 30 years ago. If any experienced aquarists disagree with my suggestions, I'd be happy to listen and learn.
Ratin, given the likelihood of HITH, why not move this fish to your QT? Treating the entire DT doesn't seem like the best approach here. In my experience with human infectious diseases, I've seen similar lesions, which often turn out to be furuncles caused by gram-positive bacteria. These usually require drainage.
I'd recommend a full course of Metro, following the dosage guidelines on the forums, which are often higher than the packaging recommends. Combine this with high-dose salt and daily water changes above 50% to replace both the salt and Metro. If the fish survives and starts eating again, consider switching to Metro-impregnated food.
Temperature is a bit tricky, as you want it higher for hex but lower for bacteria. Metro covers some gram-negative bacteria, but not gram-positive, so a second treatment might be necessary. I'd suggest using amoxicillin or cephalexin, but I'm curious to hear what others would recommend.
Given the fish's poor prognosis, I might even try to extend one of the drainage puncta on the edge of the mass with a small scalpel incision to see if I can get blood or more pus. If it's pus, I'd gently push from the other side to get out as much debris as possible.
Also, with your current regimen, you're always at risk of pH crashes due to very low kH. I doubt your nitrates are too low to accurately measure, especially with the black algae. You might want to invest in a better testing system. How do you know when to replace your RO filters?
Just a side note, Melafix is essentially tea tree oil and might be more effective for recent transfers to prevent secondary infections. Paraguard, on the other hand, needs to be dosed daily for 2-3 weeks, but it's more of an antiseptic than an antibiotic.
Keep in mind that I'm a retired physician, and while I have a good grasp of infectious diseases, my experience with aquariums is limited. I've been reading extensively on the subject, but I haven't kept discus since college, over 30 years ago. If any experienced aquarists disagree with my suggestions, I'd be happy to listen and learn.