Observations of royal gramma behavior
Observations of royal gramma behavior
Hey everyone, I'm getting a bit worried about my gramma. He's been hiding nonstop for the past 24 hours, which means he's not eating. Now I know they can hide for short periods, even up to an hour, but 12 hours is unusual. I did manage to catch a glimpse of him when I got in the tank and moved some rock around, but as soon as I put everything back, he darted back into hiding. My water quality seems fine - pH is good, no nitrite or ammonia, and nitrates are around 20-40, which I've been told is acceptable for a saltwater tank. It's just weird because I've had a cleaner shrimp and a damsel die in the last three weeks, but the water quality has stayed the same and the other fish are healthy. Yesterday, he was swimming around like normal, but things can change fast in a 20-gallon tank. Any thoughts on what might be going on?
Re: Observations of royal gramma behavior
Hey starga, how long have you had your gramma and what else is in the tank?
Try not to disturb the tank for now, see if that makes a difference.
Post your tank stats, that would be helpful.
You've had some losses recently, a cleaner shrimp and a damsel, but the water quality seems fine and no signs of ick on the other fish.
Things can change fast in a small tank, let's take a look at those stats and see if we can figure out what's going on.
Try not to disturb the tank for now, see if that makes a difference.
Post your tank stats, that would be helpful.
You've had some losses recently, a cleaner shrimp and a damsel, but the water quality seems fine and no signs of ick on the other fish.
Things can change fast in a small tank, let's take a look at those stats and see if we can figure out what's going on.
Re: Observations of royal gramma behavior
Welcome
First off, I'd recommend getting your water tested with a different kit, just to be on the safe side, especially with the recent deaths in the tank. If you could post your full water stats - SG, Temp, PH, the works - that'd be a huge help.
Seffie x asked some great questions - how long has your gramma been in the tank, and what's the rest of your stock like? Any new additions recently?
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much just yet. My own Royal Gramma can be a bit of a ghost - some days he's out all the time, other days I'm lucky to catch a glimpse of him.
First off, I'd recommend getting your water tested with a different kit, just to be on the safe side, especially with the recent deaths in the tank. If you could post your full water stats - SG, Temp, PH, the works - that'd be a huge help.
Seffie x asked some great questions - how long has your gramma been in the tank, and what's the rest of your stock like? Any new additions recently?
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much just yet. My own Royal Gramma can be a bit of a ghost - some days he's out all the time, other days I'm lucky to catch a glimpse of him.
Re: Observations of royal gramma behavior
Found him dead this morning, got stuck in a rock. Had a cleaner shrimp and a yellow tail blue damsel die recently too, but I think they just didn't get enough food with the gramma and clowns eating so much. My tank's got a couple of clowns, a small anemone, and a soft polyp coral now. Here are my stats:
SG-1.022
Temp-78-80
Ph-8
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-20
Don't think there's a water quality issue here - my results have always been around these levels. If I had something like ick, I'd know. Think the shrimp and damsel just starved, and the gramma got stuck. Had a lemon peel angel for a bit after the shrimp and damsel died, but he didn't last. I think the clowns bullied him - one night he was fine, next morning he was a mess. Might try a fiji damsel next, they're hardy and cheap.
SG-1.022
Temp-78-80
Ph-8
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-20
Don't think there's a water quality issue here - my results have always been around these levels. If I had something like ick, I'd know. Think the shrimp and damsel just starved, and the gramma got stuck. Had a lemon peel angel for a bit after the shrimp and damsel died, but he didn't last. I think the clowns bullied him - one night he was fine, next morning he was a mess. Might try a fiji damsel next, they're hardy and cheap.
Re: Observations of royal gramma behavior
starga said:
I'm really sorry to hear that, I'm actually not surprised though. I think your gramma probably hid in that rock and died.
I'm not sure I agree that the clowns would've stopped the damsel from eating, but it's possible. I do think the clowns and gramma were eating most of the food, though.
As for my tank, I have a small anemone and a soft polyp coral. I don't have any snails or hermits, but I do have a few other inverts.
My water stats are:
SG-1.022
Temp-78-80
Ph-@8
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-20
I'm using a API test kit, but I can get a second opinion from my LFS. I'll ask them to test my water and write down the results.
I'm starting to think that the shrimp and damsel might've died from starvation, and the gramma got stuck in that rock. I'm not sure what happened to the lemon peel angel, though. I think the clowns might've harassed him, but I'm not sure.
I was thinking of trying a fiji damsel, but I'll hold off for now. I'll wait until we figure out what's going on with my tank.
I do a water change every week, and I use a mix of RO and tap water. My tank has been set up for about 6 months now. I have a few different types of coral, including some zoas and a few leathers. I don't have too much algae, but I do have a bit of a problem with phosphate. I'm not running a phosphate remover, though.
I'll ask my LFS to do all the tests and write down the results. I'll post them here as soon as I get them.
I'm really sorry to hear that, I'm actually not surprised though. I think your gramma probably hid in that rock and died.
I'm not sure I agree that the clowns would've stopped the damsel from eating, but it's possible. I do think the clowns and gramma were eating most of the food, though.
As for my tank, I have a small anemone and a soft polyp coral. I don't have any snails or hermits, but I do have a few other inverts.
My water stats are:
SG-1.022
Temp-78-80
Ph-@8
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-20
I'm using a API test kit, but I can get a second opinion from my LFS. I'll ask them to test my water and write down the results.
I'm starting to think that the shrimp and damsel might've died from starvation, and the gramma got stuck in that rock. I'm not sure what happened to the lemon peel angel, though. I think the clowns might've harassed him, but I'm not sure.
I was thinking of trying a fiji damsel, but I'll hold off for now. I'll wait until we figure out what's going on with my tank.
I do a water change every week, and I use a mix of RO and tap water. My tank has been set up for about 6 months now. I have a few different types of coral, including some zoas and a few leathers. I don't have too much algae, but I do have a bit of a problem with phosphate. I'm not running a phosphate remover, though.
I'll ask my LFS to do all the tests and write down the results. I'll post them here as soon as I get them.
Re: Observations of royal gramma behavior
I did in fact go to the lfs and the only difference they got was that my nitrates were around 50 rather than the 20-30 I thought, which is a bit higher than I'd like. Just did a 3 gallon change now and will do another 3 gallon change in 5 days. Still, I don't think 50ppm on nitrate is terrible. Getting high but it's nothing like 80 or 100.
You say the shrimp and damsel didn't likely starve and the gramma didn't likely get stuck in a rock. Let's assume you're right. Then what is it? Nitrites and ammonia are the most lethal things as far as water quality, and they were both at 0 on both mine and the lfs tests. Now, granted I may have misread my nitrate test and concluded it was 20-30 rather than 50, but still, unless your nitrate reading is like dark orange or red, it shouldn't be lethal to the fish. Am I wrong? A salinity of 1.020 isn't going to kill the fish, and honestly, I feel like 1.026 is high.
Concerning water changes, I've generally been doing 2 gallons every 10 days, which is probably not enough. I should probably alter this to 2 gallons every week or 4 gallons every 2 weeks. I use purified drinking water that's treated by RO.
The tank has been set up for roughly 2.5 months. I'm not sure exactly what the coflake is, but I think it's a zoanthid of some kind. Both the coflake and anemone look fine.
Concerning algae, I don't think I have a lot, but then again, "a lot" is a vague term. I'm not running a phosphate remover, and I'm not sure where the phosphate would come from anyway. The lfs seemed to think the only point of concern was that the nitrates were a little high, that's it.
You say the shrimp and damsel didn't likely starve and the gramma didn't likely get stuck in a rock. Let's assume you're right. Then what is it? Nitrites and ammonia are the most lethal things as far as water quality, and they were both at 0 on both mine and the lfs tests. Now, granted I may have misread my nitrate test and concluded it was 20-30 rather than 50, but still, unless your nitrate reading is like dark orange or red, it shouldn't be lethal to the fish. Am I wrong? A salinity of 1.020 isn't going to kill the fish, and honestly, I feel like 1.026 is high.
Concerning water changes, I've generally been doing 2 gallons every 10 days, which is probably not enough. I should probably alter this to 2 gallons every week or 4 gallons every 2 weeks. I use purified drinking water that's treated by RO.
The tank has been set up for roughly 2.5 months. I'm not sure exactly what the coflake is, but I think it's a zoanthid of some kind. Both the coflake and anemone look fine.
Concerning algae, I don't think I have a lot, but then again, "a lot" is a vague term. I'm not running a phosphate remover, and I'm not sure where the phosphate would come from anyway. The lfs seemed to think the only point of concern was that the nitrates were a little high, that's it.
Re: Observations of royal gramma behavior
Phosphates can indeed come from tap water, but I'd imagine that's not the case here since you're using an RO system. It's possible that the Royal Gramma was just one of those fish that don't do well in captivity, leading to it hiding all the time and not getting the nutrients it needed.starga wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 4:54 pm Hey everyone, I'm getting a bit worried about my gramma. He's been hiding nonstop for the past 24 hours, which means he's not eating. Now I know they can hide for short periods, even up to an hour, but 12 hours is unusual. I did manage to catch a glimpse of him when I got in the tank and moved some rock around, but as soon as I put everything back, he darted back into hiding. My water quality seems fine - pH is good, no nitrite or ammonia, and nitrates are around 20-40, which I've been told is acceptable for a saltwater tank. It's just weird because I've had a cleaner shrimp and a damsel die in the last three weeks, but the water quality has stayed the same and the other fish are healthy. Yesterday, he was swimming around like normal, but things can change fast in a 20-gallon tank. Any thoughts on what might be going on?
There are likely many factors that contributed to the Gramma's death, but often it's not just one reason that causes it. I'm curious, do you acclimatize your fish? If not, that might be a contributing factor. Also, I think I might have missed this, but do you leave a period of time between each addition of fish or inverts? For example, a week or two?
I do agree with you on one thing - people tend to put too much emphasis on the brand of test kits. In theory, they should all work perfectly well, unless they're expired.
Re: Observations of royal gramma behavior
Seffie:
I did in fact go to the lfs and the only difference they got was that my nitrates were around 50 rather than the 20-30 I thought. I just did a 3 gallon change now and will do another 3 gallon change in 5 days. But still I dont think even 50ppm on nitrate is terrible. Getting high but its nothing like 80 or 100.
Excellent, what were the phosphate and alk results?
Ok so you say the shrimp and damsel didnt likely starve and the gramma didnt likely get stuck in a rock. Lets assume your right. Then what is it? Could be many things, we dont have all your tank stats.
Nitrites and ammonia are the most lethal things as far as water quality and they were both at 0 on both mine and the lfs tests. Yes they can be lethal, but not in my case obviously.
Now granted I may have misread my nitrate test and concluded it was 20-30 rather than 50 but still unless your nitrate reading are like dark orange or red it shouldnt be lethal to the fish. No that figure would not kill your fish but it be kill the shrimp if it was like it for a long time.
Am I wrong? A salinity of .020 isnt going to kill the fish and Lionestly I feel like .026 is high. 1.020 is ok for fish but not coflakes or the nem, both of them need 1.026.
Also, does the brand of test kit really matter? I use API but it shouldnt matter... I just dont see how a test kit could get tainted but I suppose its possible. Yes, reliablity.
Concerning water changes, I have geneflakely been doing 2 gallons every 10 days. I probably should alter this to 2 gallons every week or 4 gallons every 2 weeks. (its a 20 gallon tank). I use purified drinking water that is treated by RO. I would do 25% every week but many would do 20%.
The tank has been set up for roughly 2.5 months. Ok, so a very short time to have added so many fish and allowed a cycle.
Im not sure exactly what the coflake is. A zoanthid of some kind I believe. Both the coflake and anemone look fine. They will not long term though.
What anemone is it - they really shouldnt be in a tank less than six months old. Concerning algae, no I dont think I have a lot but then again "a lot" is a vague term. If you have a lot of algae it could be using the phosphate so giving a false low reading.
Negative on the phosphate remover. Where would the phosphate come from? The water, food etc.
The lfs seemed to think the only point of concern was that the nitrates were a little high...thats it. Well, what were the results of the other main test?
I did in fact go to the lfs and the only difference they got was that my nitrates were around 50 rather than the 20-30 I thought. I just did a 3 gallon change now and will do another 3 gallon change in 5 days. But still I dont think even 50ppm on nitrate is terrible. Getting high but its nothing like 80 or 100.
Excellent, what were the phosphate and alk results?
Ok so you say the shrimp and damsel didnt likely starve and the gramma didnt likely get stuck in a rock. Lets assume your right. Then what is it? Could be many things, we dont have all your tank stats.
Nitrites and ammonia are the most lethal things as far as water quality and they were both at 0 on both mine and the lfs tests. Yes they can be lethal, but not in my case obviously.
Now granted I may have misread my nitrate test and concluded it was 20-30 rather than 50 but still unless your nitrate reading are like dark orange or red it shouldnt be lethal to the fish. No that figure would not kill your fish but it be kill the shrimp if it was like it for a long time.
Am I wrong? A salinity of .020 isnt going to kill the fish and Lionestly I feel like .026 is high. 1.020 is ok for fish but not coflakes or the nem, both of them need 1.026.
Also, does the brand of test kit really matter? I use API but it shouldnt matter... I just dont see how a test kit could get tainted but I suppose its possible. Yes, reliablity.
Concerning water changes, I have geneflakely been doing 2 gallons every 10 days. I probably should alter this to 2 gallons every week or 4 gallons every 2 weeks. (its a 20 gallon tank). I use purified drinking water that is treated by RO. I would do 25% every week but many would do 20%.
The tank has been set up for roughly 2.5 months. Ok, so a very short time to have added so many fish and allowed a cycle.
Im not sure exactly what the coflake is. A zoanthid of some kind I believe. Both the coflake and anemone look fine. They will not long term though.
What anemone is it - they really shouldnt be in a tank less than six months old. Concerning algae, no I dont think I have a lot but then again "a lot" is a vague term. If you have a lot of algae it could be using the phosphate so giving a false low reading.
Negative on the phosphate remover. Where would the phosphate come from? The water, food etc.
The lfs seemed to think the only point of concern was that the nitrates were a little high...thats it. Well, what were the results of the other main test?
Re: Observations of royal gramma behavior
Thanks for the help, everyone - especially Seffie. I didn't mean to come across ungrateful, it's just been a tough week and I've had my fair share of bad experiences with saltwater over the years. I hate losing fish, but I just can't stand freshwater fish. My problems in the past have usually been due to not doing enough research and putting fish in my tanks that were either too big or just not suitable for some reason.
Regarding the anemone and coflake, I now know they need a higher salinity level, so I'll be gradually increasing it over the next couple of weeks. It's currently at around 1.022-1.023, so I've got some work to do. I didn't realize they were best suited for advanced, established tanks, but all I can do now is cross my fingers and hope they make it. I doubt I'll be adding any more coflakes or inverts to the tank, but they seem to be thriving under the 50/50 light. I feed them once or twice a week, and they're doing great - the coflake blooms every day, and the anemone (a white, long-tentacled one) has moved around quite a bit.
As for the tank not being cycled, I'm pretty sure I did it right this time. It's a smaller tank, and I started with 12 pounds of live rock and live sand as the substrate. The tank cycled quickly, but I still waited around 2.5 weeks and was getting the same results - no nitrite and no ammonia. I assumed a tank that size would cycle quickly, and now I've got around 20 pounds of live rock in there. From what I've heard, smaller tanks with good amounts of live sand and rock tend to cycle fast.
I'll be changing my water changing schedule to 4 gallons every week - 2 gallons every 10 days just wasn't enough. Once the nitrates come down, I might consider adding one more fish, but to be honest, I'm happy with just the 2 clowns (assuming they live) and one other. I'm guessing a damsel is a bad choice? What about a mandarin? Or a coflake beauty?
Regarding the anemone and coflake, I now know they need a higher salinity level, so I'll be gradually increasing it over the next couple of weeks. It's currently at around 1.022-1.023, so I've got some work to do. I didn't realize they were best suited for advanced, established tanks, but all I can do now is cross my fingers and hope they make it. I doubt I'll be adding any more coflakes or inverts to the tank, but they seem to be thriving under the 50/50 light. I feed them once or twice a week, and they're doing great - the coflake blooms every day, and the anemone (a white, long-tentacled one) has moved around quite a bit.
As for the tank not being cycled, I'm pretty sure I did it right this time. It's a smaller tank, and I started with 12 pounds of live rock and live sand as the substrate. The tank cycled quickly, but I still waited around 2.5 weeks and was getting the same results - no nitrite and no ammonia. I assumed a tank that size would cycle quickly, and now I've got around 20 pounds of live rock in there. From what I've heard, smaller tanks with good amounts of live sand and rock tend to cycle fast.
I'll be changing my water changing schedule to 4 gallons every week - 2 gallons every 10 days just wasn't enough. Once the nitrates come down, I might consider adding one more fish, but to be honest, I'm happy with just the 2 clowns (assuming they live) and one other. I'm guessing a damsel is a bad choice? What about a mandarin? Or a coflake beauty?
Re: Observations of royal gramma behavior
Thanks for the help, Seffie, I really appreciate it. I know I came off a bit ungrateful earlier, it's just been a tough week and I've had my fair share of bad experiences with saltwater tanks over the years. I've always hated losing fish, but I just can't stand freshwater fish.
Regarding the anemone and coflake, I now know they need a salinity of 1.026, so I'll be building that up over the next couple of weeks. I didn't realize they were for advanced, established tanks, but I'm hoping they'll make it. I've got a 50/50 light that can support a small amount of coflake life, and I feed them 1-2 times a week. They seem to be thriving, and the coflake blooms every day for long periods.
The anemone has moved around quite a bit, but I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. I've been told that anemones move when they're unhappy, searching for a better place to put their foot. I've had the tank cycled, or at least I think I have. I had 12 pounds of live rock in there from the beginning with live sand as a substrate. The tank cycled quickly, but I waited 2.5 weeks to make sure. I've since added more live rock, bringing the total to 20 pounds.
I've decided to change my water changing mode to 4 gallons every week. I think 2 gallons every 10 days just wasn't enough. Once the nitrates go down, I might think about adding one more fish. I'm thinking maybe a mandarin or a small goby, but I'm not sure about a damsel. What do you guys think?
Regarding the anemone and coflake, I now know they need a salinity of 1.026, so I'll be building that up over the next couple of weeks. I didn't realize they were for advanced, established tanks, but I'm hoping they'll make it. I've got a 50/50 light that can support a small amount of coflake life, and I feed them 1-2 times a week. They seem to be thriving, and the coflake blooms every day for long periods.
The anemone has moved around quite a bit, but I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. I've been told that anemones move when they're unhappy, searching for a better place to put their foot. I've had the tank cycled, or at least I think I have. I had 12 pounds of live rock in there from the beginning with live sand as a substrate. The tank cycled quickly, but I waited 2.5 weeks to make sure. I've since added more live rock, bringing the total to 20 pounds.
I've decided to change my water changing mode to 4 gallons every week. I think 2 gallons every 10 days just wasn't enough. Once the nitrates go down, I might think about adding one more fish. I'm thinking maybe a mandarin or a small goby, but I'm not sure about a damsel. What do you guys think?